Deborah Rodriguez Transcript Start of transcript Description: The cover of her latest book, The Moroccan Daughter is on the left. The first words at the very top of the book cover is When you soul is in one country and your heart is in another... The illustration is a decorated camel, kneeling down. A girl in a red and orange spotted dress and long brown hair can be seen from behind, walking into an entryway with two palm trees coming up behind the door. The outside of the book is covered in a purple, blue and white pattern around the edges. The photograph of the author, Deborah Rodriguez, holding her face in her hand. She is smiling, wearing a white top and looking directly into the camera. Text on Screen: Queensland Libraries present Deborah Rodriguez in conversation with Frances Whiting livestream begins in [timer] Description: Navy blue background with white text centred on screen. Text on Screen: We would like to acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which we meet today and pay our respects to Elders past and present. Description: A background of navy blue, shows two screens side by side. The left screen shows Frances Whiting with a black top on. In her background is a full bookshelf and a computer monitior. In the bottom left hand corner is the text FRANCES WHITING. On the right hand screen Deborah Rodriguez is smiling into the camera, wearing black framed glasses and setting in front of a bookshelf, showcasing her books. She has a chest in the left hand side of the screen that is wooden with beautiful markings on it. She is wearing blue and gold top. In the bottom left hand corner of the right hand side is the text Deborah Rodriguez. Text on Screen: Deborah Rodriguez with Frances Whiting Frances Whiting: Good evening. My name is Frances Whiting. I'm a journalist and author, and it's my great pleasure to welcome tonight's guest, Deborah Rodriguez. Many of you will know and love Deborah's books. Bestselling books like the Little Coffee Shop of Kabul, memoirs like the House on Carnival Street, and now her new book, The Moroccan Daughter. Now, this one is a treat for all the senses, sight, taste, smell, sound, touch. You'll see what I mean when you read it. And in it, we also welcome back some old favorite characters from Deborah's last book, the Island on the Edge of the World, Bea and Charlie. And we also welcome today, Deborah. Welcome, Deborah. Thank you so much for being a part of the series. Deborah Rodriguez: This is so exciting. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. Frances Whiting: Well, we're happy to have you. All right, we're going to dive straight in. Deborah, reading this book, it really occurred to me all the way through, the real star of it, apart from your lovely characters, Bea and Charlie, et cetera, is Morocco itself. How did you come to know Morocco so well and clearly to love it as much as you obviously do? Deborah Rodriguez: I started visiting Morocco in the '90s and then in 2008 I went back and I thought... I fell in love with it. I had just come back from Afghanistan and I had been in the United States for about a year and I was a little out of sorts when I was in the United States. I had missed Afghanistan so much. And when I went to Morocco, it was this... I felt alive for the first time in about a year. The sounds, the smells, the adrenaline. Everything about it. It had flavor. It had so much energy. And I knew then that I needed to write a book that took place in Morocco. But it's all about finding that perfect story that goes with this amazing, amazing country. And so once I found the story I was in, and so then the research began in Morocco. Frances Whiting: How long did you spend in Morocco, researching it? Deborah Rodriguez: This last time I was in Morocco about three weeks and... Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing- Frances Whiting: [crosstalk 00:02:40]... a lot longer because it seems to me like you must've lived there for a couple of years. So well done. Deborah Rodriguez: Well, but this was just this last research trip. And so I'd just been back and forth. But it's such a stunning country. Morocco is so complicated in so many different ways. In this book, the main focus is on Fez and in the mountains in Imilchil. Otherwise there's just... You could go there constantly and never know everything there is to know about Morocco. Frances Whiting: And I just wanted to touch on something briefly before we deep dive into the book itself. I was quite ignorant of the concept of a medina. And I found that fascinating, this idea of this walled city which is apparently are very iconic in Morocco, there's several. For those readers who are like me, who are a bit unfamiliar with that concept, can you maybe paint for us a picture of the medina and what it is? Description: Coming into full screen, Deborah Rodriguez is smiling into the camera, wearing black framed glasses and setting in front of a bookshelf, showcasing her books. She has a chest in the left hand side of the screen that is wooden with beautiful markings on it. She is wearing blue and gold top. In the bottom left hand corner of the right hand side is the text Deborah Rodriguez. Deborah Rodriguez: Well, the medina in Fez is probably the most unusual, most interesting medina, I think, in the world, probably. It's over 9,000 small alleyways and little pathways. And some of them, literally, you had to go sideways to get down the road. It's a maze. It's just a maze of so many different little roads. And you see all the stores are in these little alleyways. It's door after door after door. And behind the doors would be a huge riad. You would never know. You would be in an alleyway that could be three feet across. And they had little things built on top of, I guess, some of the walkways just to keep the sun off you. It's hard to even imagine what it would be like. You get lost every time you're in there no matter how hard you try not to. Description: Coming back into the side by side screens, With a background of navy blue. The left screen shows Frances Whiting with a black top on. In her background is a full bookshelf and a computer monitior. In the bottom left hand corner is the text FRANCES WHITING. On the right hand screen Deborah Rodriguez is smiling into the camera, wearing black framed glasses and setting in front of a bookshelf, showcasing her books. She has a chest in the left hand side of the screen that is wooden with beautiful markings on it. She is wearing blue and gold top. In the bottom left hand corner of the right hand side is the text Deborah Rodriguez. Text on Screen: Deborah Rodriguez with Frances Whiting Frances Whiting: I think this book is going to have a lot of people like myself very intrigued and wanting to visit and experience this particular medina. Now the riad you mentioned, that's a family home, isn't it? Or compound as such. Deborah Rodriguez: A riad is like a house, yes. A family home. Frances Whiting: Yeah. The book is where we follow our central character, Amina, as she is returning to her family riad to attend his sister's wedding. Deborah Rodriguez: Correct. Frances Whiting: In tow are our old friends, Charlie and Bea from the previous folks. I love that idea of recurring characters. Was it nice for you to revisit them, and why did you decide to bring them along in this new book? Deborah Rodriguez: Well, originally that was the whole idea when I wrote Island on the Edge of the World, was to have reoccurring characters. I'm a hairdresser. Hairdressers, we know what's going on everywhere and we can get information out of anybody. And so that was... I thought, write what I know. I want to be Bea. Bea is just so amazing. And the fact that she can't see, that she's basically blind, makes... As a writer, you have to go in deeper to be able to see the characters, see things that explain things and describe things that a blind person is experiencing. And I thought it just gave a really nice layer. And Bea is so funny. Wouldn't you want to go on a trip with her and Charlie? It would be a riot. Frances Whiting: It would be a hoot. I want to be Bea when I grow up, too. Deborah Rodriguez: Oh, I know. Frances Whiting: And you just touched on something. When I introduced you and this book I said, it's a feast for the senses. And it really is, particularly in those markets scenes. You really write so beautifully. Often through Bea experiencing it you can smell the smells, you can taste, you can feel the ripe fruit, the sense of the perfumes. Was Bea a writing device as such to do that, Deborah, or did that just come naturally through her eyes? Deborah Rodriguez: No. Originally when there was a character of Bea... I love having older people in my books. I find that older people... Or younger, but older especially can say things and do things that other people can't get away with. I love that. And I met a blind woman who... I was in a class with her and she sensed and knew things that was happening around her environment. And I was so intrigued by that. It's like she could sense things that were going to happen. And she actually was a psychic, but I didn't know any of this. And it was so interesting to be in this class with this woman who was also blind. And so I thought, you know what? It would be so interesting, I think, to have a character, because I think it's intriguing because there is something so much deeper and that is... It brings out something different than other characters. Frances Whiting: I agree. And actually I was going to ask you about that. Bea has this psychic ability. She's very much in touch with the spirit world. She's very comfortable with that. And people aren't always. And you touched on it a little, but I was going to ask you, do you have that belief? And have you had any of those experiences? For example, Bea believes and indeed does, in the book, that she can talk to people who have passed. Deborah Rodriguez: Yes, she does. I do not discount anything. Frances Whiting: Same. Deborah Rodriguez: Yeah. Who am I to discount anything? I have experienced things in research for other books that I'm like, "Okay, I have no idea what just happened." But yeah, I do believe. I don't discount. Do I talk to dead people? No, but I wouldn't mind speaking with my mom. Frances Whiting: Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I think a lot of us yearn for that connection. And like you, I don't discount anything. Deborah Rodriguez: Right, right. Frances Whiting: I think the world is full of magic. And all these places you go often have this other level to them anyway. And I wanted to ask you, you tend to, or I think you do, you tend to embed yourself in these amazing places, whether it be Afghanistan or Haiti or Morocco. What's it like returning to real life for you? And what does your life look like when you're not traveling to these places and researching? Deborah Rodriguez: Well, I live in Mexico. I live in central, in Mazatlan, Mexico. It's chaos and magic and movement and sounds. I live that all the time. And I think that that's what I find my comfort level. That's what I like. I like a little bit of madness, a little bit of chaos. And if it's too quiet, then I'm like, "Okay, this feels awkward." And so I feel really comfortable in places that are a little topsy-turvy. I like figuring things out. After Afghanistan, you can almost go anywhere. Frances Whiting: Should imagine. Deborah Rodriguez: Yeah. And I felt very comfortable in Afghanistan. It was dicey many, many times, but I never felt... I always felt comfortable. That was my home. And so when I go to these places that are a lot different than, say, the United States, I land there and I'm home. And I think that's why I can embed so easy, because it's just part of my nature. Frances Whiting: After reading your books, I can't see you living in like a cookie cutter suburb. Deborah Rodriguez: No. Frances Whiting: No. Another thing, of your books, and certainly of this one also, Deborah... Again, I don't want to give too much of the plot away. But we do go to Morocco. We do go to Amina's childhood home. Charlie is with her and Bea. They're there for the sister's wedding. And beneath that, many, many layers. Family secrets are uncovered, old resentments surface as they tend to do in families. But there's some central themes. And one of the things that I really enjoyed in this book and indeed your others is this very intimate relationship that women have with each other. You see it, of course, in your hairdressing salon. We see it with the girls traveling together, supporting each other. That idea of female intimacy and friendship, Deborah, where does that come from? Because you write about it very warmly and it rings very true in their interactions. Deborah Rodriguez: I'm an only child. So I didn't have the siblings that lot of people have in my family unit. I was raised in the beauty shop, so it was my mom and it was all the women around me. So I think as a real young child I was in that environment. And I seek that. I seek that with my friendships. And even this last research trip was two of my girlfriends. And oh my goodness, talk about insanity. But it was the best. I love it. And it was, "Okay, so today you play Bea." "No." So it was really... And I think female friends, there's something at the core of it where women are so strong and we often really need each other. And there's nothing better than girlfriends. We can talk and we can tell each other anything. And that honesty, and being able to have each other's back and lift each other up. I think that's so crucial. Frances Whiting: And as a very modern woman, the themes in this book also are about some of those more traditional aspects of, say, Moroccan family life in some families. The idea of say, for example, Deborah, arranged marriage. Deborah Rodriguez: Right. Frances Whiting: The idea of women not being able to do what they want to do. That's also a central theme, particularly through Amina struggling to be who she wants to be, to get out of the shadow of her very traditional family. When you witness that, and I'm sure you do, is that hard for you as a modern woman. And also to write about it with a sensitivity and an understanding of the cultural bounds it exists in. Deborah Rodriguez: Right. I think that it comes down to the fact that I lived in Afghanistan for five years, so I was a part of that. It is just what it is. Often your daughter was safer if they married somebody you knew. And so it was about keeping within the tribe, within family's protection, that whole thing. So I don't pass judgment on any of that because there's a reason they do it. There's that teetering between wanting to be modern and love who you want to love and then your parents, "This is what we've done at all this..." Morocco is part of Africa, and it's so close to Europe that sometimes there's these great contradictions because of that. And no, it doesn't. It's not hard for me to see, because I think that I've been around it so much that I understand it. And I appreciate cultures. And looking at something like, "Oh, I can't believe they cover their head." Well, why? It has nothing to do with the covering of the head. It's just, that's where they're comfortable. You know what I mean? Frances Whiting: Absolutely. Deborah Rodriguez: I'm not so comfortable wearing a bikini, so I don't want anybody to tell me I have to wear a bikini. Frances Whiting: Yes. But you do write about it with sensitivity. And that whole struggle, that inner struggle that women, as they're trying to navigate, straddle two worlds. Deborah Rodriguez: It is tricky. Frances Whiting: Very tricky. Now the other character, thinking of teaser in between two worlds, that I really like in this book is Samira. She's the longterm family housekeeper, which, many families, not just in Moroccan society, but many families do retain these longterm I guess servants or people in servitude the family. But they too are straddling a world because they're part of the family, but they're not. Deborah Rodriguez: Exactly. I wanted to have a character like Samira because Samira knows where all the bodies are buried. And I think that's the case with anybody who works in anybody else's house. And so she has. She's had to cross lines that she isn't often comfortable crossing. And you're right. She's a part of a family but yet sometimes seen as the servant or seen as a family member. Yeah. I can't imagine being in that situation. That would be very difficult, I think. Frances Whiting: Absolutely. She was probably... I really liked Samira. And of course I just love Bea, but I think everyone will love Bea. Deborah Rodriguez: Right. Frances Whiting: So I want to talk a little bit about process now, because I know a lot of the people who tune into this series are people who'd like to write themselves or are indeed writing. So I always like to ask authors a little bit about their process. So Deborah, can you just tell us a little about where you write, when you write, and how you write? Description: Coming into full screen, Deborah Rodriguez is smiling into the camera, wearing black framed glasses and setting in front of a bookshelf, showcasing her books. She has a chest in the left hand side of the screen that is wooden with beautiful markings on it. She is wearing blue and gold top. In the bottom left hand corner of the right hand side is the text Deborah Rodriguez. Deborah Rodriguez: Okay. It's really funny because it kind of depends on what I'm writing. Am I just trying to figure things out and I'm trying to sort through the plot or trying to figure out a character? But I love the fact... I live in Mexico, as I said before. I live, literally... The street is right out my door. And often to get inspiration for writing these kind of novels I literally will open my door and I literally let the sounds of the street come to me. And you can hear the roosters crowing or you can hear the dogs barking, the vendors calling out what they're selling. Deborah Rodriguez: And so I do that. I just let that be background noise for me for when I'm writing. And I like to, depending on what I'm writing, I'll either hunker down in the morning after my coffee, or sometimes I'm a late night writer so I will write and work until the wee hours of the night. And then I'll go up on my patio and sit outside in the dark upstairs, outside my bedroom, and be outside and just listen to... I love the sounds. The sounds are just inspirational for me. Description: Coming back into the side by side screens, With a background of navy blue. The left screen shows Frances Whiting with a black top on. In her background is a full bookshelf and a computer monitior. In the bottom left hand corner is the text FRANCES WHITING. On the right hand screen Deborah Rodriguez is smiling into the camera, wearing black framed glasses and setting in front of a bookshelf, showcasing her books. She has a chest in the left hand side of the screen that is wooden with beautiful markings on it. She is wearing blue and gold top. In the bottom left hand corner of the right hand side is the text Deborah Rodriguez. Text on Screen: Deborah Rodriguez with Frances Whiting Frances Whiting: Isn't it fascinating how we all write so differently? Deborah Rodriguez: Yeah. Frances Whiting: I have written a couple of books. I require complete silence. Deborah Rodriguez: Well, you know what? And if I'm really struggling with something, there is that complete silence thing. Or I just have to... When nothing comes out. When you look at your keyboard like it is the enemy. It's like, "I hate you, keyboard." I get still frustrated. Sometimes I'll call a girlfriend, actually. I always keep one or two girlfriends going with me all through the story. And I'll call them up. I'm like, "Okay. I am stuck." And then I'll just... I'm an external processor, so I talk about it. I have to talk it out. If I can talk it out and hear myself tell the story, then I can go further. Frances Whiting: And it's sort of like being on a quiz show, when you've got your lifeline friends. You're allowed to phone a friend. Deborah Rodriguez: Yes, yes. Frances Whiting: So being that travel is such a part of who you are both as a writer and just as a person, how has COVID affected you as a writer in terms of, I guess you can't just pack up now and go wherever? It's not quite the same. And- Deborah Rodriguez: Well- Frances Whiting: Sorry. Go on. Deborah Rodriguez: No. No. I did take... I told you I live in Mexico. And so the restrictions have been on and off and limited. And so I did take one small trip to Pátzcuaro, Mexico. I turned 60 at the end of October and I wanted to go to the celebration up in the mountains where I knew that COVID was really, really limited. And it was for the Day of the Dead celebration. Frances Whiting: Of course. Right. Deborah Rodriguez: And so I was in the cemetery, so everybody was dead anyway. So I was good. Frances Whiting: I sense another book coming on, Deborah. Deborah Rodriguez: And so I did feel that angst to do something, and it was my safest way to do something. And I loved it. And I'm really itching to travel again because I've got a new book in the back of my head that I need to get to the location to see if it'll work. I'm chomping at the bit. Frances Whiting: And I'm sure your readers are chomping at the bit as well to read where your next book takes you. Look, I loved this one. Everyone, if you're looking for beautiful, escapist, armchair travel of a book, and gosh knows this is the time for it. A story about family, love, complicated relationships that we all have. This is just a lovely read. Thank you so much, Deborah, for being my guest today. Deborah Rodriguez: This was wonderful. Thank you so much. Frances Whiting: Absolute delight talking to you, and we hope to see you in Australia one day in person. Deborah Rodriguez: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Frances Whiting: All right. And good evening, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Description: The screen is showing the logos of Public Libraries and Councils who have partnered in this author event. The list is going from left to right is: Toowoomba Region Libraires, City of Gold Coast, Ipswich Libraries, Brisbane City, Redland City Council, Logan City Council, Lockyer Valley Regional Council, Noosa Library Service, Fraser Coast Regional Council Libraries, Sunshine Coast Council/Libraries, Moreton Bay Region Libraries, and Gympie Regional Libraries/Gympie Regional Council. At the bottom right hand corner of the screen is the Penguin Random House Australia logo. Text on screen: RECORDED AND BROADCAST BY QLD LIVE STREAMING QLDLIVESTREAMING.COM.AU End of transcript